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Senator Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) led the charge, slamming Kennedy for a $3 billion drop in federally funded biomedical research compared to last year.

Kennedy stood his ground.

“We’re cutting waste, we’re cutting duplicative programs,” he said.

Still, Baldwin wouldn’t let up. She framed the loss of “3,200 fewer grants” as an attack on “life-saving programs.”

Kennedy hit back with a devastating stat.

“We spend 70% of the world’s biomedical research out of NIH. 70%. And we’re the sickest country in the world,” he said.

“We’ve had a 38% increase in our agency growth over the past four years,” he added. “That money has not been well spent.”

The exchange summed up a broader dynamic: Democrats trying to paint RFK Jr. as a villain, slashing life-saving science, while Kennedy pointed out that America’s health is declining because of how this money is being spent, not despite it.

3:19 PM · May 20, 2025 //

Senator Kennedy: How many employees were there at HHS when you took over?

HHS Secretary Kennedy: 82,000.

Senator Kennedy: How many do you have today?

HHS: 62,000.

Senator Kennedy: OK.

HHS: That's about the level it was in 2019, right before COVID.

Senator Kennedy: Is, is this the first time that an institution in America has ever downsized?

HHS: I don't think so. I think private and public institutions have.

Senator Kennedy: Microsoft just announced that they were going to reduce their workforce by 6,000 people. You think that will be the end of Microsoft?

HHS: Senator, we wouldn't have reduced anybody...

Senator Kennedy: You think that will be the end of Microsoft?

HHS: I don't think so, Senator. //

Senator Kennedy: Do you hate medical research?

HHS: No, I think we need to lead the world in medical research in this country.

Senator Kennedy: In fact, isn't it true, Mr. Secretary, that you would like to see more money spent on medical research?

HHS: Obviously. I'm the secretary of this department and no secretary wants to see his budget cut.

Senator Kennedy: Well, one way of doing that, it seems to me, would be to stop some of the stealing. And let me tell you what I mean by that. Suppose NIH gives a university $100 million to research, for medical research, to research a cure. And that university takes $30 million of it, doesn't spend it on the research, they use it to subsidize the rest of their university. Is... does that show a commitment to medical research?

HHS: No, and I mentioned before the example of Stanford, which was taking 78 percent in indirect costs, and we don't know what they were spending it on.

Senator Kennedy: That's a theft, isn't it?

HHS: It's not a good way to spend federal money.

Senator Kennedy: In Louisiana, we call that stealing. We call that stealing.